New Member with questions

View previous topic View next topic Go down

New Member with questions

Post  feebet on Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:20 am

Hi All, just registered on the forum as this seems to be the place for the best Boilermate advice. Great site by the way !!

Ok, house is 10 years old. I have an Ideal Classic boiler situated downstairs in the kitchen. Upstairs we have a Boilermate 2000.

We have had a problem now for around 3 months when the boiler fires up - it fires, goes out, fires, goes out etc. etc. Sometimes this can happen a number of times, and other times it will light first time and stay lit. I'm not suspecting a boiler fault at this stage.

Now more recently we have seen problems where we have little hot water, one shower can use up all the stored hot water. Also because the hot water is not always up to temp. the central heating does not work first thing in the morning.

I have looked through the Boilermate manual and using the PCB buttons have read the values for the hot water etc. No errors appear although our readings seem considerably lower than on a neighbours unit. Their storage temp. is >60° whereas ours is around around 55°. This will gradually heat up through the day until the central heating is allowed to function. I can use the emergency switch to heat up the hot water and this will in turn speed up the operation of the central heating.

Now I'm just wondering about the best place to start. Do I get someone out to look at the boiler or the boilermate or are there any recommendations on here from people who have experienced similar behaviour. Also are there any recommended Gledhill repairers in the South Yorkshire are ?

Thanks in advance.
Paul


feebet

Posts : 25
Join date : 2013-03-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Member with questions

Post  feebet on Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:38 am

Sorry, meant to type I am not ruling out a boiler fault at this stage

Paul

feebet

Posts : 25
Join date : 2013-03-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Member with questions

Post  Mario.S on Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:08 pm

First check your Gas Boiler if on maximum setting, if not, there is your problem. Other than this, could be the thermostat on your Gas Boiler or the PCB on your Boilermate, hard to point without proper system check, but still repairable.
There was an old college of mine at Yorkshire but he is in retirement now, sorry.
hope this helps
Mario at Mario's Boiler Service

Mario.S

Posts : 224
Join date : 2011-12-10
Location : Fareham / Hampshire

View user profile http://www.marios-boiler-service.co.uk/

Back to top Go down

Re: New Member with questions

Post  feebet on Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:45 am

Hi Mario

Thanks for the quick reply. Just an update - I have checked the boilermate PCB following the commissioning instructions and this appears to be functioning correctly. I have even put the jumper 5 on for the diagnostics and all seems ok.

In the manual I read that the boiler thermostat has to be on maximum because the boilermate uses its own sensor measuring the store temperature to control the boiler. I have removed the store temp sensor and read the display which steadily drops and putting the sensor back in the tank sleeve causes it to rise again. This seems to show that the store sensor is functioning ok.

As a quick test I unplugged the boiler stat from the boiler PCB and switched the boiler on. Immediately the boiler fired up and continued to run raising the temperature of the stored water in the boilermate.

Personally I am thinking I either have a faulty boiler thermostat as one symptom in particular is the boiler firing on/off/on etc. especially when the boiler is hot having been on duty for most of the day. If it is not this then I guess it could only be the boiler PCB itself.
I think the boiler thermostat is telling the boiler to switch off before it needs to.

What do you think ? but I plan to replace the boiler thermostat first as this part is only around £12.00

feebet

Posts : 25
Join date : 2013-03-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Member with questions

Post  Mario.S on Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:15 pm

You are correct, as you tested, could be only the Gas Boiler thermostat or PCB, well done, I could not do better. Try the thermostat first.
regards Mario

Mario.S

Posts : 224
Join date : 2011-12-10
Location : Fareham / Hampshire

View user profile http://www.marios-boiler-service.co.uk/

Back to top Go down

Thermostat replaced still poor performance

Post  feebet on Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:59 am

Hi Mario and anybody else wishing to offer advice,

Just an update. I have fitted a new boiler thermostat which appears to have cured the problem where the boiler would light, go out, light, go out repeatedly fault. Boiler now fires up ok and stops on when called for.

The other problem I have now is the boilermate store temp is not coming up as quickly as I would expect it to. The pump for the boiler is running ok, and all pipework is hot. The boiler seems to fire up and stay on for a while and then cut out again (guess this is normal). After a while it will repeat this sequence as if it is gradually heating up the hot water for the storage. Because I have a low or 'slow to rise' store temp the central heating is not operating as the unit is quite often under 60 degrees (after a couple of showers for example). When up to temp, the CH will work until I use some hot water again.

Any further advice would be most welcome on what would restrict the store temp from rising more quickly.

Regards
Paul

feebet

Posts : 25
Join date : 2013-03-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Member with questions

Post  Mario.S on Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:51 am

Now you have to reset the Boilermate ( switch of and after 10 sec. back on again ) to get the Boilermate to ask for 70 to 78 c.
Also check for leaking taps ( the slight leak can take energy permanently out of the BM) , and check if you have a towel heater connected to the BM ( they are mostly on the Boiler circuit and there for taking energy of before going to the BM) and turn them down only use if needed.
this should help to get the BM faster to load. ( also Gas Boiler always on Max setting !!)
regards Mario

Mario.S

Posts : 224
Join date : 2011-12-10
Location : Fareham / Hampshire

View user profile http://www.marios-boiler-service.co.uk/

Back to top Go down

Re: New Member with questions

Post  feebet on Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:10 am

Hi Mario

Now you have to reset the Boilermate ( switch of and after 10 sec. back on again ) to get the Boilermate to ask for 70 to 78 c.
DID THIS AFTER CHANGING BOILER THERMOSTAT YESTERDAY

Also check for leaking taps ( the slight leak can take energy permanently out of the BM) , NO LEAKING TAPS and check if you have a towel heater connected to the BM ( they are mostly on the Boiler circuit and there for taking energy of before going to the BM) and turn them down only use if needed. NO TOWEL RAIL FITTED, I KNOW THIS AS I AM ONLY HOUSE OWNER (10 YEARS FROM NEW)
this should help to get the BM faster to load. ( also Gas Boiler always on Max setting !!) NEW BOILER STAT SET ON MAXIMUM
regards Mario

Could it be the boilermate thermostat actually reading higher than what the true temp is ? Can I test by measuring for eg a cup of hot water with a thermometer to see the temp and then immersing the boilermate temp probe into the same cup and check the probe reading on the boilermate display for accuracy ?

Thanks
Paul

feebet

Posts : 25
Join date : 2013-03-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Member with questions

Post  feebet on Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:33 am

Mario

CH just kicked in.

Checked page 35 in boilermate manual and Store_T1 (current value) is 60°. However when I press SW1 on the board I see T1_ON at ┘74 and pressing SW1 again I see T1_OFF at ┐77

Do you see anything strange with the ON / OFF values in relation to the storage temperature ?

1) Can I change the storage ON / OFF values ?
2) Can I test raising the storage temperature by temporarily removing the temp probe from the boilermate tank so the boiler is called for ?

Thanks again
Paul

feebet

Posts : 25
Join date : 2013-03-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Member with questions

Post  Mario.S on Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:47 pm

This is tricky now , without testing and investigating your problem in person. Sorry no you can not change any of those settings on your PCB
regards Mario

Mario.S

Posts : 224
Join date : 2011-12-10
Location : Fareham / Hampshire

View user profile http://www.marios-boiler-service.co.uk/

Back to top Go down

Re: New Member with questions

Post  feebet on Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:18 am

To me it looks like my store temp is low - think we can agree on that.

It also looks like my boiler ON temp is not achievable and the boiler 'OFF' temp is quite close to the ON temp.

How does the Boilermate determine the boiler ON/OFF parameters as to me these are the cause of my problem.

My boiler heats the store up to 60 degrees.
The CH cuts in.
The store drops below 60 degrees.
The CH goes off.
Repeat the above steps.

What could cause both of these parameters to be above my current boiler performance ? Alternatively how can these parameters be re-calibrated ?


feebet

Posts : 25
Join date : 2013-03-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Member with questions

Post  scorp on Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:38 pm

Can it be boiler pump which is on the left hand side in BM? Worth to try to switch it to 3rd speed if already not on it. Or the worst scenario is reduced flow due to blockage on Primary return/flow(from/to boiler). So the slow water movement in pipe causing overheating in boiler quickly and that heat not transferred into BM fast enough. Just guessing.....

scorp

Posts : 77
Join date : 2010-07-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Member with questions

Post  feebet on Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:20 am

Right latest update.

Checked pump operation which appears fine. Closed valves either side of pump and the took top off the pump. It was as clean as a whistle inside, you would not think the system was nearly 11 years old. Water was grimey but no sludge whatsoever. Dried parts off, re-assembled and ran pump. Bled air through screw in pump body. Pump actually feels much hotter now than it did previously (maybe in my head anyway).

Checked boiler circuit board and can deduce the following;

Boilermate store up to temp, no power to boiler
Boilermate not up to temp, 240v to boiler

When 240v to boiler, boiler fires and runs until stat sensor in the heat exchanger measures low voltage (approx. 4v dc). Boiler switches off
Boiler loses heat, stat sensor voltage starts to climb and boiler relights. Cycle is repeated until store is up to temp
Boilermate indicates 73/74 deg. and bottom LED switches OFF thus turning off power to boiler PCB
Boiler pump continues to run for a short while (timed overrun) before middle LED switches OFF and pump stops

Pressing SW1, the boiler ON parameter is 65 deg and OFF is 72 deg so to me all looks OK
Boilermate seems to hold temperature at 73/74 deg.

Switch CH on using the timer, room stat on 20 deg.
Top LED lights and CH pump starts
Radiators immediately start to warm up
After 2 mins, store temp indicating 72 deg
After further 2 mins, boiler cuts in and store temp now indicating 60 deg
Store temp goes to 59 deg and CH switches off

Question:- Why the big drop in indicated temperature on the store temperature ??

I'm thinking the sensor that measures the store temperature.





feebet

Posts : 25
Join date : 2013-03-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Member with questions

Post  scorp on Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:07 am

I saw you managed to take out store temperature sensor while system is working. You can calibrate sensor then by placing it in water with any good thermometer applying two different temperature, for example room and boiling. But I would first check if tank is full

scorp

Posts : 77
Join date : 2010-07-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Member with questions

Post  feebet on Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:03 pm

How do I check if tank is full ?

If I drain some off at the bottom then it is filled from the header tank OK.

feebet

Posts : 25
Join date : 2013-03-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Member with questions

Post  scorp on Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:00 am

Then it is full if you see that water added(not stayed always full) to the header tank after you drained main tank

scorp

Posts : 77
Join date : 2010-07-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Member with questions

Post  feebet on Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:34 am

Thanks for reply scorp, anyway just done another test to try and explain problem better.

Turned CH off on programmer.
Heated Store to 75 deg
Turned Programmer on, CH kicks in, and CH pump runs and you hear radiators in the house start to creak as they warm up.
Temp on Store drops to 74 after 1m 30s
Temp on Store drops to 73 after 2m 10s
Temp on Store drops to 70 by 2m 35s
Temp on Store drops to 68 after 2m 40s - Boiler kicks in
Temp on Store drops to 65 after 2m 45s
Temp on Store drops to 60 by 3:00
CH switches off when temp drops to 59 deg after only 3m 10s

Any advice regarding circulation problems and recommendations whether it is worth running any cleaner around the system ?

What is the procedure for draining and re-filling the system ?


feebet

Posts : 25
Join date : 2013-03-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Member with questions

Post  scorp on Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:57 am

If you have circulation problem then it is in boiler-to/from-BM pipes. Problem in heating pipes would show opposite effect. If you are 100% sure that temperature sensor is good then....sorry, I can't help with cleaning pipes advice, I'm electronics engineer :). But please, don't forget to tell us how you fixed the issue.
Another crazy idea is that when your heating pump starts, cold water leaks into the storage(through header tank or Plate Heat Exchanger). It is crazy idea and has a lot of buts(where hot water from storage goes, and why only when heating is on), but who knows...

scorp

Posts : 77
Join date : 2010-07-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Member with questions

Post  RosieG on Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:50 pm

Hi all. Excuse me as I know nothing about plumbing but found this site and it seems to have some useful help about Boilermate 11. I have one of these systems. It was in my property when I moved here 9 years ago, never seen anything like it but apart from having a pump changed it has been ok. I think it might have been installed in the 80's. Is that possible? I have a two questions.
1. My unit has a small tank at the top with a round lid that comes off. It is always dry inside though i have sometimes put water in it to see if it helped he system. The ball cock inside doesn't seem to be connected. Is this tank redundant or should I be filling it manually? I am not sure whether there should be water in it and if I should be keeping the boilermate topped up by filling this tank regularly
2. My boilermate runs off lpg. The system has a back boiler that fires up and is operated by a time switch separate to the boiler mate. I turn off the radiators at their temperature valves in the summer and use the timer to get hot water only in summer. The system seems to be taking longer to heat. The green light is on all the time when the timer is set to on so the boilermate is on constantly if the timer is at ON. I have the summer/winter dial set to maximum winter but it is taking about 1.5 hours to get enough hot water for a short shower. What should I do? It's costing a lot to run and my flat is freezing. Anybody advise this helpless female??

RosieG

Posts : 2
Join date : 2013-03-23

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Member with questions

Post  scorp on Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:41 am

Hi RosieG,

If you have Boilermate II then I would recommend to create new topic in Boilermate II part of this forum, otherwise your question will be missed.
As for your questions, I can definitely say that small tank at the top must always contain water, roughly half full. Most likely the ball cock was broken and previous owner just switched off water access to the tank. Ideally you need to have it fixed. But for time being just fill it with water slowly until water stops going into main tank. Then keep an eye on the water level for few days and top it up if necessary. That will mean that main tank is full with water. Your second question most likely related to the first one, your system doesn't work properly because doesn't have enough water in the main tank.

scorp

Posts : 77
Join date : 2010-07-07

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Member with questions

Post  RosieG on Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:21 pm

Thank you very much for this. I put quite a lot of water into it and what a difference! It used to gurgle loudly now it's as quiet as a mouse. Be interesting now to see if it improves performance.

RosieG

Posts : 2
Join date : 2013-03-23

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: New Member with questions

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum