Electramate 2000 9KW - Economy 10 Query

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Electramate 2000 9KW - Economy 10 Query

Post  n34panda on Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:55 am

Hi,

I am 99.9% certain we have a 9KW Electramate 2000 running under an Economy 10 tariff.

I wasn't too concerned with our usage until recently but I think we have a problem (probably in the boiler setup). Basically we live in a 2 bed flat and it is costing around £80.00 on electricity (no gas/oil) per month during the summer and around £120 during the winter. I think this is about £20 too expensive especially during the summer, our usage pattern suggests about 25% off-peak energy and 75% on peak even though my wife and I are out almost every day during the day. We only use appliances when it is off-peak and the heating whilst off during the summer is set to come on only during off-peak during winter (with one exception being the morning).

I understand there is a summer/winter setting and an On/Off Peak switch. I have changed the summer/winter setting to the summer as I understand this drops the temperature in the boiler to 65 dregrees instead of 75. This is fine, probably won't be noticable to us. The Off Peak switch was "on" which I assume lets the boiler know it is running on an Economy Tariff, however I have just switched this off to see if it changes anything (give it a month to see how it effects the bill).

Anyway, except for the Off-Peak switch is there anyway to ensure the boiler is set to use the off-peak time only? I know with the 12KW version there is a combination of switches, I couldn't see these when I had a look under the panel but I wondered if there was something equivalent.

I am not experienced with this at all and I would rather avoid playing around with it...I just want to make sure the boiler is working perfectly before changing Electricity supplier to save money.

Thanks for your patience and any replies.

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Re: Electramate 2000 9KW - Economy 10 Query

Post  Mario.S on Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:56 pm

Yes the Electramate design is for eco 10 and should run on this with about 75% of peak and 35% peak use. The idea is to store as match as possible on energy at Off peak to us this stored energy during the peak hours. The summer, winter switch only works with the heating and has no effect if you ( like in summer) use the hot water only.
I hope this helps
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Re: Electramate 2000 9KW - Economy 10 Query

Post  Mario.S on Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:58 pm

sorry of course 65 off peak and 35 peak
regards Mario

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Re: Electramate 2000 9KW - Economy 10 Query

Post  n34panda on Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:04 pm

Yes thanks, that's what concerns me - our bill suggests we are using 20% off peak and 80% on peak...Economy 10 is actually more expensive.

I am hoping I can find out if there is another way that the PCB or whatever it is called within the boiler can be checked to ensure it is only charging during the off-peak times

thanks for the reply.

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Re: Electramate 2000 9KW - Economy 10 Query

Post  Mario.S on Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:07 pm

The Off peak switch on the 9kw is only giving a signal to the little Off peak pcb to change the load setting from 65 c max (75 c at the winter setting) to 85/90c, to create a kind of night storage energy reserve to be used at peak times, to bridge the times between your eco 10 off peak delivery times. So consequently, an eco 7 would be not good enough, course the time between the Off peak are 17 h, so you would run in summer about 50% on peak and in winter about 70%.
I hope this helps
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Re: Electramate 2000 9KW - Economy 10 Query

Post  n34panda on Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:14 pm

Not sure I follow, is this a basic understanding of it:

The Off-Peak switch just informs the boiler to heat to a higher temperature to bridge the on-peak times (so it doesn't need to recharge until the next off-peak time?).

As we are already on Economy 10 and I have had the boiler Off-Peak switch set to On for the past 4 years (ish) I assume there is no problem there. I have been "analysing" our usage back over the past 2 years and the BEST month we had was 56% day usage. Average winter off-peak usage was around 45-50% and that was with the thermostat set to switch the heating on at the off-peak times almost exactly (with the morning exception).

Does 20-25% off peak usage during the summer and around 40-50% off-peak usage during the winter seem low?

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Re: Electramate 2000 9KW - Economy 10 Query

Post  Mario.S on Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:18 pm

All Electramate's running on peak and off peak, you can't run the unit on off peak only, but if you use the energy in the unit mainly at peak times and give the boiler the chance to store as match as pos at off peak, this is minimising your energy cost. The running cost of the EM2000 is still about 60% less then adequate night storage heater. But still more expensive then gas !!
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Re: Electramate 2000 9KW - Economy 10 Query

Post  n34panda on Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:22 pm

Is that done by basically using heating/shower during ON peak times so it recharges during off-peak??? Sorry for my ignorance. Or is it still best to use everything during the off-peak.

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Re: Electramate 2000 9KW - Economy 10 Query

Post  Mario.S on Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:25 pm

The setting for on and off ,of your immersion ( switch boiler) at peak times is 55c on and 65c off, for the off peak is 80 c on and 85 c off ( 85c on / 90c off depending on PCB software version). So as off peak becomes live, the signal will change the temp. setting on the pcb to the higher load , to store this higher load for the time the off peak is over. then you can run hot water or heating as low as 55c store temp. to get recharged from peak energy , but only to 65c max until next off peak.
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Re: Electramate 2000 9KW - Economy 10 Query

Post  Mario.S on Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:27 pm

The setting for on and off ,of your immersion ( switch boiler) at peak times is 55c on and 65c off, for the off peak is 80 c on and 85 c off ( 85c on / 90c off depending on PCB software version). So as off peak becomes live, the signal will change the temp. setting on the pcb to the higher load , to store this higher load for the time the off peak is over. then you can run hot water or heating as low as 55c store temp. to get recharged from peak energy , but only to 65c max until next off peak. S best use your Boiler during PEAK and let them charge and store during OFF PEAK
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Re: Electramate 2000 9KW - Economy 10 Query

Post  n34panda on Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:32 pm

Righty I will give that a go, goes against a little bit of logic but does make sense. I appreciate your help.

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Re: Electramate 2000 9KW - Economy 10 Query

Post  Mario.S on Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:33 pm

This is the mistake every EM2000 user is doing , if you use most of your energy at off peak times, the boiler has no chance to store any energy for the time you run on peak energy, soon you run a bit of heating or hot water then, you using strait the expensive electric to do so, course you given the boiler no chance to store the extra for this time.
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Re: Electramate 2000 9KW - Economy 10 Query

Post  Mario.S on Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:40 pm

As mentioned before, The EM2000 is conceited as a part night storage heating and hot water Boiler. I know course, I was working for Gledhill (the manufacturer of your EM2000) for about 12 years as service manager in the south of England.
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Re: Electramate 2000 9KW - Economy 10 Query

Post  n34panda on Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:52 am

I appreciate your help, I changed our thermostats this morning so when the heating does come on, it comes on during ON Peak and goes off before the OFF peak times.

Hopefully I can begin to notice a difference when we begin to use our heating.


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Re: Electramate 2000 9KW - Economy 10 Query

Post  n34panda on Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:34 am

An up-date....

We are a couple living in a two bedroom flat which is less than 10 years old.  We are still averaging about 30% off-peak energy usage annually with about 10,000 units.  Unfortunately I am really struggling with the bills (now about 30% of my rent...).  We barely have the heating on these days but always (apart from am) time it to come on before off-peak and then switch off during off-peak so it recharges during the cheap electricity.  

I have checked our tariff and it is cheaper than the big "6" however I could save a lot by changing to another supplier - one with a much cheaper On-Peak tariff (but more expensive off-peak and standing charge), i would rather not change yet.  I am currently recording the meter readings during on-off peak and it does seem to update on the Economy 10 hours as expected...it's not that!

As far as appliances go, most kitchen appliances like the washing machine/dish washer are only used during off-peak. The oven/fridge etc is on all the time.  We do have a computer/tv on a lot but not much else.  Everything else will be switched off (but on at the wall - lighting is barely used (not all environmentally bulbs...).  

I really think the Boiler must use a huge % of our entire electricity usage.  I know about the difference is winter usage / electricity vs gas prices but I really think we should be using much more than 30% off-peak...perhaps 50% ideally.  I would like to know if there is anything else to be done with the boiler to check/force it to work during off-peak only (we do have water heating problems, for example it isn't a sustained heat even when the heating hasn't been on for hours - if we switch the heating on then the shower can get hot instantly).

I have attached a photo on the pressure panel, note the summer/winter switch is set to "Summer". Not a great photo but hopefully shows what it needs to.

To summarise, A few questions:
-> I am wondering if the pressure is too low, should it be above 1 bar (will this have an effect)?
-> What sort of time does it take to reheat new water?
-> is there anything to be done to force/check the electramate is currently using the on/off timings?
-> What should the pressure be at and will that have an effect?

I have attached a photo on the pressure panel, note the summer/winter switch is set to "Summer".

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Re: Electramate 2000 9KW - Economy 10 Query

Post  n34panda on Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:45 pm

http://www.gledhill-spares.net/documents/EM2000-Iss6.pdf

I've been re-reading that document, by all accounts I need to note the following:

-> I need to investigate the "Off-Peak Board" and ensure it is working properly, advice here would be great?
-> ElectraMate 2000 will operate at mains pressures as low as 1.5 bar and as high as 5 bar although the recommended range is 2-3 bar.
====> I am currently running around 0.75bar, what are the consequences of this and I assume I need to get a plumber in asap?
====> Going to bleed radiators tomorrow to check they are ok.

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Re: Electramate 2000 9KW - Economy 10 Query

Post  n34panda on Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:14 am

when we moved in the meter readings where 30% On Peak and 70% Off Peak. Now if I take a reading the On Peak it is now around 45% On Peak and 55% Off Peak...

I have an electrician coming today to fix something else but I hope he is able to see if the secondary power source you mentioned in the other thread is correctly connected.

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