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Boilermate efficiency

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Post  Bochin Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:06 am

We have recently moved into our new house and for the first time I have come across the Boilermate 2.

We have always have a combi boilers, now we have Potterton Prima 60B with mentioned above Boilermate 2.

I have done some research on my new boiler and its mate and find out that the boiler itself is quite old and very inefficient (if anyone could confirm that it would be appreciate) and Boilermate 2 itself is again quite wasteful on electricity and gas as far as I know.

I have read that it can be efficient and economic during the strong winter and big demand for heating.
My boilermate have 2 pumps which one runs all the time and one on demand. As far as I know it’s how it should run as one pump constantly moves water between boiler and mate to keep in hot 24/7.

The question I would like to ask you guys as I was struggling to find any good answer is:
1. Is it worth changing boiler itself due to its being inefficient?
2. Is it worth changing boiler and boilermate just due efficiency?
3. Can I do something to boilermate to switch it off completely? Switch on and off at mains or installing some additional timer?

I’m not that bothered with the boilermate at winter but in spring/summer when the heating is not required it seems very wasteful on energy and gas.

As the first thing I would like to reduce my bills by somehow switching boilermate off when it’s not needed. There are only two of us and we both work full time.
Therefore is it ok for the boiler to be switch off and on by switching mains for 6h at night and then switch it back on for 2h in morning and then back off for another 6h and then back on for remaining 7h evening? I’m not sure if it’s ok for the boilermate being switch off and on that often by mains. I was even thinking to by simple time plug and do it this way. I'm just worry it might

Other option is some kind of additional clock/timer to be installed to the boilermate. I think I have read something in the manual on “Delay timer” but I coulden’t find exact explanation how that will work.

I would appreciate any advice from you more experience guy in that matter

Bochin

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Post  mike Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:06 am

Delay timer is a PCB in the BM II.
If the time clock and stat is off heating pump will not run.
When the BM II is fully heated. The BM II will run to take the heat from the boiler.
Boiler must be on its MAX setting if not confliction will take place.
Let the boiler heat the BM II up.
And wait to see if Boiler pump stops after a few minutes.
If not the PCB could be faulty.
All the other stuff ref boilers etc is all about cost.
If you pay lots you will / may get the best.
How long to recover the cost is any ones guess.
Tell me if you have your boiler on it's Max setting?
Mike
MGC/H2O
Norfolk

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Post  Bochin Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:11 pm

The boiler is definitely on max setting and one of the BMII pumps still run all the time. But the boiler self at that time is not heating. Boiler only kicks in when there is demand for the heating.
We have the BMII on all the time at them moment and i haven change anything beside heating timer.

From your post i understand that the pump should stop after some time and kicks in again when the temp of the water drops down below some pre set value?

I'm just wondering why the pump is running if the boiler is not heating the water?

Bochin

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Post  mike Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:28 pm

Which pump is running?

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Post  Bochin Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:35 pm

It's hard to say from just touching them.

I tested it on the electric consumption and if i switch the mains off obviously there is no power consumption. if i turn the BMII back on it takes 70W and when the CH kicks in it takes 150W which means second pump start tu run.

As the 150W its when there is demand for CH i have assumed is the pump for the CH... hopefully correctly

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Post  mike Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:44 pm

You really need to get test probes and a meter to test this out.
Also check that boiler pump on the BM II is controlled by the BM II.
There is a remote chance the boiler may be controlling the boiler pump.

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Post  Bochin Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:53 pm

I have tested it again by getting inside the cupboard and i'm absolutely positive that the pump which is constantly ruing is the one labeled "primary return to heat generator"

Bochin

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Post  mike Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:59 pm

Turn the BM control down when the unit is hot.
This will check that the BM stat is working.
And the boiler should not run.
The boiler pump should stop after awhile.
If not check the PCB's inside the BM II

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Post  mike Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:02 pm

Also have you the manual on your BM II?
And have you gone through all the BM II posts on here?
Mike

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Post  Bochin Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:18 pm

By saying turn the control down i assume you mean the store temp control. I have turned it to minim. and after the 10minutes no change the pump is still running.

I do have a manual and i have went through many post on this in another forum but couldn't find exact the same problem.

Everything was ok for me and after reading post on other forum that the BMII runs 24/7 i assumed that constantly running pomp is ok.

As the DH and CH works, room thermostat works, boiler only fires when there is demand for CH, green light on the bottom is off.

Bochin

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Post  mike Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:34 pm

You need to check the PCB's then
And pay attention to whether the BM II boiler pump is being controlled by the Potterton boiler.
It is very hard with out being in front of the BM II.
Look at the circuit in your book.
Or down load a manual from Gledhill website.
Link on here; Free manuals.
Which will allow you to enlarge the circuit drawing if need be.
The boiler pump does not run all the time.
Only when the boiler is running and after that to use the heat from the boiler to the BM II.
Unless you have a very old BM II which only have one PCB.
Most have 2.
There are some rectangular BM II's out there which are very early model indeed.
Have you looked at your PCB's

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Post  Bochin Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:44 pm

Yes, I have opened front cover and i can see two PCB's as it should be.

Both of the PCB's are connected as per the wiring diagram from the manual.

One thing i have notice on the bottom PCB is that is very hot!!

Bochin

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Post  mike Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:07 pm

That is the delay timer.
I would test that out for starters.

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Post  Bochin Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:09 pm

Mike thanks for all you help.

Sorry for being total ignorant but i'm only a simple diy man.

What do you mean by saying "test that out for starters"?

As well i have set the control to MAX for some time to test it and there was no difference. No green light or anything... If that mean anything

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Post  mike Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:24 pm

You need a meter.
Read the circuit.
Or if not competent get some one in.
There are people advertising on here.
Or Google up for one in your area.

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Post  Bochin Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:29 pm

I have a meter and have no problem with getting the reading on the contact just what i'm measuring? resistance (ohms)? and between which contacts?

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Post  Bochin Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:29 pm

I have tested Delay Timer PCB for "live" and terminal 1,2 and 4 are live.

As well seeing other post on this forum it might mean something that when i switch the BM of at mains and switch it on normal there is short (2-4sec) buzzing, but it never happened when the BM is running constantly.

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Post  Bochin Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:45 pm

I have carried out some more research and now i know much more!! but i do have more questions as well.

After testing the Daley Timer and having the 1,2 and 4 terminal on PCB live with main return pump running i'm still not sure if that's how it should be or not.

BM manual says "If terminals 1 and 4 are live and the pump continues to run even though power has been off, on 2, for more then 5 minutes" then is delay timer fault.

But i'm not sure what that mean, is that mean if terminal 1 and 4 are live and terminal 2 dead pump should not be running? in which case my PCB is ok as there is live terminal 2?
It not quite clear for me sorry.

Then looking on the internet for new PCB i have realised that my PCB look a bit different, it's missing the big resistor on the bottom. Is that just mean my PCB is that OLD? Boiler is dated DEC 94.
My PCB's
Boilermate efficiency  111

New one
Boilermate efficiency  Dsc01111

Then there is a problem with the control that it doesn't matter if it's on max or min it doesn't make a difference. Boiler is not kicking in if it's on max or the light comes up or anything.
Is that again due to PCB or thermostat itself?

Bochin

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Post  Bochin Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:13 pm

Another day another finding

I have gone again though checking all the wiring and everything seems wired correctly but i have notice something.

Again not sure if i understand this correctly but as far as i understand the wiring diagram terminal 7 should be dead unless Capillary thermostat close the circuit and put the current through from terminal 4. Therefore if I completely disconnect Capillary thermostat leaving an open circuit there should be no current at 7 and therefore at terminal 2 at delay timer PCB.

In my case even when i disconnect the Capillary thermostat there is still current at terminal 7 on the main board as well as on terminal 2 on Daley timer PCB which i think is wrong?

As well i have discovered that even though my green light is not "on" it is!! It just a light is not working but there is a current send from terminal 7!!

If my thinking is correct and there should be no current at terminal 7 unless it's coming from Capillary thermostat not from the delay timer PCB terminal 2? Therefore something is wrong with the delay timer PCB and this PCB is sending the current through terminal 2 to the main board terminal 7.

I would really appreciate any advice which would help me to determinate if the delay timer PCB need replacing alone or Capillary thermostat as well or maybe something else?


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