Systemate 3 advice needed/please help.

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Systemate 3 advice needed/please help.

Post  Geths on Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:57 am

I recently had to replace the boiler that's connected to our Systemate 3 due to the original boiler (that was installed when the flat was built in 2001) giving up the ghost.  Tbh the 8kw original boiler was never suitable for a Systemate, I think they were installed by Wimpy due to their footprint, cost etc.  I had a fault on my Systemate 3 a couple of years ago, and the engineer who fixed the fault (mid position valve Danfloss actuator needed replacing) commented that the boiler (the old one at the time) wasn't giving enough heat to the Systemate to make it work at its optimum.

Anyway I've had a new 'MAIN' HE A 18kw heat only condensing boiler fitted and I'm having some gremlins with my Systemate 3.  Firstly, the systemate supports 8 radiators (all medium to small in size), an onsuite shower and a bathroom.  I've noted the Systemate now asks the boiler for heat a tad more often? (to top up the store is my guess) but the boiler hardly fires before its fulfilled the Systemate 3 request.  Although I've vented my radiators I'm having to constantly re-bleed two of them, one tends to be abit slow to heat up. (guessing a balancing issue?) and lastly but most important. My hot water is amazingly hot! like dangerously so, with children about, although I struggle to get a full bath of hot water? showers aren't a problem as such, we've a temperature setting on the shower itself.

The systemate has been set to 1.0 bar, The two pumps on the Systemate 3 are set too level 3 for the pump on the left, and level 3 for the pump on the right. The Systemate 3 is set up for soft water, there's new inhibitor in the system due to new boiler (inhibitor was present before too).  The tank on the top has the right amount of water within it.  I've checked the LED's and there no faults reported on any of the sensors, however the sensor readings are somewhat strange? as per below:-

store T1 current value 63  (sw1) t1 on 68 (sw1) t1 off 71

PHE T2 current value 57 (sw1) t2 on 65 (sw1) t2 off 71

DHW T3 current value 65

Is it me or are those values somewhat out?

Id be most grateful of any help or advice, unfortunately the original engineer who replaced the actuator has retired, and Merseyside is somewhat thin on the ground for engineers who understand Gledhill tanks etc. I wish you lived further north mike....

Thankyou in advance to anyone with insight etc.

Geths


Last edited by Geths on Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Systemate 3 advice needed/please help.

Post  mike on Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:59 pm

Dhw one is out.
Speak to Gledhill and mention your new boiler.
Have heard of this before with new condensing boilers.
Matching the 2 up can be awkward.
Could try putting the boiler pump on 2.
Mike

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Re: Systemate 3 advice needed/please help.

Post  Geths on Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:17 am

mike wrote:Dhw one is out.
Speak to Gledhill and mention your new boiler.
Have heard of this before with new condensing boilers.
Matching the 2 up can be awkward.
Could try putting the boiler pump on 2.
Mike

Hi mike, firstly thankyou for getting back to me, your advice is most appreciated.  Now when you say the DHW one is out, what do you mean? the temperature reading is out? the sensor has died? or both? or something else?

I've spoken with the Gledhill advice line, the man on the phone was very helpful and struck me as knowing the system inside and out, his advice was to recommission the systemate 3, then remove the heatstore sensor for a minute, reseat it and see if the systemate 3 gets the store up to correct operating parameters?  If it drops back down, he suggested its either the boiler not providing enough heat (check flow temp at boiler) if that's o.k then its either wired incorrectly, or a circulation issue and the system needs flushing or (and he thought it doubtful) the PCB needs replacing on the store. As for the DHW temp, he thought that was a consequence of the current operating temperatures, which confused me somewhat....

What I have noticed since recommissioning the systemate 3, is that, although the bottom two green lights are illuminated on the PCB, the boiler is only randomly cycling? surely the boiler should fire continuously while the store charges? if I deplete the store by running hot water, the boiler does eventually fire and continue to fire while the tap is on.

your thoughts?

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Re: Systemate 3 advice needed/please help.

Post  mike on Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:29 pm

Does sound like a flow problem.
Was the system cleaned prior to fitting new boiler?
Boiler pump is it new?

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Re: Systemate 3 advice needed/please help.

Post  Geths on Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:52 pm

mike wrote:Does sound like a flow problem.
Was the system cleaned prior to fitting new boiler?
Boiler pump is it new?

Mike

Hi mike, thanks for replying again.

System wasn't cleaned as such, obviously was drained down, the water that drained out was relatively clean (I live in a soft-water area) and contained inhibitor, when it was refilled, new inhibitor was added.  The boiler pump is the original pump that came attached to the systemate 3 on installation.

I've noted the wimpy electrician took some liberties with the wiring, as far as I can tell he's ran 1 cable into the mains terminals 1, 2 and 3. no problem there. Then this is where it gets somewhat confusing he's ran another wire in that's connected to the earth on terminal 3, switched live terminal 7 then terminals 26 and 28. If I disconnect terminals 26 and 28 the room thermostat doesn't work. I'm guessing it comes together somewhere, and makes sense and was a cost cutting/typical shoddy wimpy work.

The boiler fires as per normal if the heating is switched on either manually or via the mechanical clock hitting a setting. The boiler will eventually kick in if you run the DHW for long enough. It just doesn't seem to heat the store enough, and cycles randomly through the day/night ? and doesn't fire continuously when the store is charging and the bottom two lights are on?

One other point, when I got advancedheating solutions in four years ago and they diagnosed a faulty mid position valve, the engineer commented that the maxolturbo boiler that was then connected wasn't heating the store enough. Could this simply be coincidence?

Once again mike, thankyou for your help in this matter, its truly appreciated. Your a diamond.

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Re: Systemate 3 advice needed/please help.

Post  mike on Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:06 pm

Well it is very hard with not being in front of the unit.
From cold how long does the boiler run?
Also the new boiler does it work the boiler pump?
What is the wiring at the boiler?
How many cables going into the unit.
Room stat is wired from the unit / ACB?
You need to study the unit wiring diagrams.
And the boiler to.
Mike

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Re: Systemate 3 advice needed/please help.

Post  Geths on Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:01 pm

mike wrote:Well it is very hard with not being in front of the unit.
From cold how long does the boiler run?
Also the new boiler does it work the boiler pump?
What is the wiring at the boiler?
How many cables going into the unit.
Room stat is wired from the unit / ACB?
You need to study the unit wiring diagrams.
And the boiler to.
Mike

Completely appreciate the difficulties mike, and your insight is still very much appreciated.  I'm just trying to keep my heating costs down, the costs of any repairs I'm going to need, so arming myself with as much info as possible, and where possible and safe ill do the repairs myself.  I lost my job last year and well I'm sure you can understand.  I plan to get the engineer back who installed the boiler, he's an honest/good chap, however he's had little dealings with Gledhill systems etc.

Oh I edited my last post, not sure if I answered any of your questions in my edit.

From cold the boiler fires for 10 minutes or so, the store is about 60 ish, then 5 minutes later the boiler fires for a further 2 minutes stores is now at 68

Does the boiler work the boiler pump? er I don't know, or probably i don't understand what you mean. could you rephrase?

The boiler has a switched live, neutral, earth and a optional pump feed for fully TRV'd systems.  The switched live, neutral and earth are currently wired up, there's a spare black wire that's capped (this was exactly the same wiring set up with the old Maxol boiler)

If by unit you mean the Systemate?  There's two cables going into the unit 1) is the mains feed 2) is a single 4 core wire that connects both the Potterton room thermostat and somehow also runs an earth and switched live that feeds the boiler?

room stat i think I might have answered in my edited previous post?

Been studying diagrams all day, feels like I'm cramming for exams all over again....


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Re: Systemate 3 advice needed/please help.

Post  mike on Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:05 pm

Store should really get higher than that.
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Re: Systemate 3 advice needed/please help.

Post  mike on Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:09 pm

Also being a thermal store.
The boiler will fire to keep the store topped up.
Is the boiler giving out a good output?
Check the temperature to the flow and return on the boiler.
More so when the unit reaches it's max 68?
See what you have.
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Re: Systemate 3 advice needed/please help.

Post  Geths on Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:12 pm

mike wrote:Also being a thermal store.
The boiler will fire to keep the store topped up.
Is the boiler giving out a good output?
Check the temperature to the flow and return on the boiler.
More so when the unit reaches it's max 68?
See what you have.
Mike


Will get those checked and get back to you.  Probably a silly question but my engineer couldn't have got the flow and return pipes mixed up? surely the boiler wouldn't work if he had? it would cause a dry fire fault on the boiler no? (just thinking out loud if you catch my drift)


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Re: Systemate 3 advice needed/please help.

Post  mike on Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:35 pm

Check boiler book for flow and return.
From cold check which one gets hot first (flow)
Check on unit right one.
If unit hits max 68c?
Are the flow and return pipes on the boiler equal?
Also whilst heating up the unit I think the difference between F & R on the boiler should be 8 to 11?
You could have sludge problems as in the unit / pipe work.
It may be that a 15/60 pump may be better.
Time will tell.
But it is a thermal store and the boiler will fire up to keep it topped up / charged etc.
Lets face it a flat battery is useless.
Well a thermal store is a battery but charged with heat.
Mike

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Re: Systemate 3 advice needed/please help.

Post  Geths on Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:14 pm

mike wrote:Check boiler book for flow and return.
From cold check which one gets hot first (flow)
Check on unit right one.
If unit hits max 68c?
Are the flow and return pipes on the boiler equal?
Also whilst heating up the unit I think the difference between F & R on the boiler should be 8 to 11?
You could have sludge problems as in the unit / pipe work.
It may be that a 15/60 pump may be better.
Time will tell.
But it is a thermal store and the boiler will fire up to keep it topped up / charged etc.
Lets face it a flat battery is useless.
Well a thermal store is a battery but charged with heat.
Mike


Thanks again Mike for your continuing advice.  Ill get the installer out and hopefully get the answers to those questions you've posed, and go through some fault finding. ill report back when done.

cheers

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